youVSmee (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

Present a finite entity which does not require an infinite source for its existence. Does that make sense? Of course not. Anything finite is a byroduct of a finite source. Matter, energy, elements, time, chemicals, viruses, bacteria,etc., anything with a finite properties cannot exist and non-exists simultaneiously in order to create itself into existence once again.What??? Intelligence comes from an immaterial-intelligence source, via infinite mind-conscious.

forelelyon (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

hey. why dont you read about what your talking about before pretending to know what your talking about. M-theory. 11 dimensions. multiple universes. energy interaction. ring any bells

Lotus4115 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

A god started it all. I'll give you that. This doesnt make Bronze Age religion correct. This is also where ID proponents fail. To tie a first cause to the worlds religions is a huge leap of faith.

Ploppy17 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

But that's not how seeking truth works. You believe in something when there is evidence for it, not just because of a lack of definite proof against it. Same goes for dragons, unicorns or fairies. No solid anti-fairy evidence, but that is not in of itself evidence that they are real. And I do respect some theists, I simply think they are incorrect. It's not disrespectful, it's simply a disagreement.

forelelyon (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

it doesnt not point there being a god eitherthere may be a god in our 11 dimensional universe but he would most certainly not be God of christians today. After all we do need an observer according to quantum physics. so there may be a god, or maybe not. until we know we should whole heartedly seek the truth. while respecting others

Ploppy17 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

"If you don't believe in God then you do believe in materialistic creation." False. It's not a simple choice between believing one or the other. Not only are there numerous other theories, but it's entirely possible to simply admit not knowing, and thus not putting forward a positive claim. Again, no positive claim is inherent in atheism. Individual atheists might put such claims forward, but Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god, nothing more. It doesn't require a belief in anything else.

Ploppy17 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

Because whilst we may not know everything about gravity, we know it exists because we can see it's influence on the universe. We have no such comparable proof of god. We know gravity is real even if we don't fully understand it, but we have no such clear evidence for god. Were just asking you for proof he exists. If you can't provide that, why should we believe you? And no, the fine tuning of the universe doesn't prove god.

spheresus (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

If you don't believe in God then you do believe in materialistic creation. Atheism by default makes positive claims. Now provide evidence for this materialistic creation. I am a a-materialist, I don't believe in a material source(s). Now which is true, your a-theism or my a-materialism?

spheresus (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

If science can explain gravity then how does gravity warp spacetime? Science can't fully explain gravity, so why do theists have to fully explain God? The more we understand about our Universe the more new questions we have unaswered. It's an illusion you buy into that science killed God. The Universe presents evidence pointing to God and one of them is the fine tunning of the Universe.

Ploppy17 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

And we do have answers for forces such as gravity, look up 'Gravity as Curved Space: Einstein's Theory of General Relativity ' for an example. So we do have explanations for gravity and we are looking for such explanations all the time because it is in fact necessary to explain these things, because neither science nor atheism work on faith. We are understanding more all the time about how the universe works, and still none of the evidence points to there being a god.